Today, I'm excited to have Karen Rands with us. Karen is a nationally recognized expert on angel investing and entrepreneurial growth. She is the bestselling author of Inside Secrets to Angel Investing and the founder of The Compassionate Capitalist Movement. She is the host of Compassionate Capitalism Radio podcast for entrepreneurs and investors, and for all those that are passionate about helping the entrepreneur ecosystem thrive to grow their companies with new job creation and funded innovation that will improve our lives. Karen, that was a lot. And it seems like you've touched a lot of different areas, but talk to me a little bit about your career and how you ended up here.
Okay, great. Happy to be here, really excited. I love your organization. I love what you're doing to empower investors to take control of the wealth that they've accumulated within retirement, and be able to apply that in, potentially, non-traditional ways for creating wealth. So I'm excited to be on your show because it's very much a consistent philosophy that I even talk about in my book. As a way for people that may not have had an exit, that has a pool of cash to be an angel investor, but they've been working in a career for a long time and have accumulated money within a 401k, how they can put that to use outside of the stock market.
With that said, to answer your question, entrepreneurism has been something that has been part of my legacy. My dad was an entrepreneur. I didn't fully understand the sacrifices that he made over the years to be a successful entrepreneur. He was an inventor, he had multiple patents. It wasn't until much later in his life that he started to accumulate wealth for him. And I didn't truly understand that myself until his passing, and I was about 50 at the time.
And so, prior to that, I had been running The Network of Business Angels and Investors here in Atlanta. I had stepped into that role after leaving IBM, where I was an entrepreneur within the organization. And I had been bringing new products to market, cultivating partners to develop development tools for OS2 and pen-based technologies back in the very early forefront of hand recognition, and using this last mile of automation. And I had negotiated... had helped create a whole new division of IBM to integrate wireless products and mobile products to automate that last bastion of that. And so, I was just really excited about innovation and all these things.
And my last job at IBM was working with all of those during that tremendous change in technology where we had brick and mortars going to click and mortars, and we had all the dot-coms coming out. We had a whole new way of business, driven by the internet. Whole new levels of technology with wireless and mobility. And it was a very exciting time. And so I had left IBM in 2000 to be in the parade, not just watch the parade go by. And I had this opportunity to get mentored by the founder of NBA&I Jerry Martin. And ultimately negotiated to... He wanted to retire, and I took that over and rebuilt it into being one of the most active angel investor groups in the Southeast, and on Fortune Mag's top 50 in the country.
And everything was going great. So all the things that I talk about as compassionate capitalism. Innovation was getting funded, jobs were getting created, wealth was being made. And then, the recession happened. And so, my business suffered tremendously during that time. And that was when I was out going through my dad's stuff. And I saw that he had started this up when he was in his fifties. And I'd had this epiphany. I'd always had on my card, compassionate capitalism, and then I changed... I had my podcast, we would promote companies that participated in our events. And I changed the name of it, with an intent to convey this message to those investors that had money sitting on the sidelines because of the uncertainty in the marketplace, that they should look at putting it into entrepreneurs that could uplift the economy with job creation.
And so I thought, well, let me change this podcast. Let me broadcast this, let me promote this idea. And so that was years before I had this epiphany. And I had always been... When you go through a setback when you have your heart and soul and dream and a vision for a business and it doesn't quite happen, you have to regroup and figure out, what am I meant to do? And so I said... I was going through this and I said, "I'm the one that believes, and understands, in this power of using your financial freedom, your financial wealth, your discretionary income." And you can choose to be a pure capitalist, which is stock market buying and selling, real estate buying and selling. Being in a business that buys wholesale and sells retail.
But if you choose to direct some of those funds into entrepreneur endeavors that do that, bring innovation to market, create jobs, create wealth, you're having a double impact in the way that your money is used. Of course, you want to make money. That's the capitalist side of it. But compassion says, "I'm going to choose how I spend my dollars to have the greatest impact." So it's a little bit different than impact investing because it's is about the double bottom line. What is this company doing, and what is it going to generate when it comes to profitability and things like that. And so that was when I said, "If not me, who?" Who else is going to lead this charge? I am just one person shouting from a rooftop, or a megaphone of a podcast, or a video blog, but let me step out there and do it because I want to... When my days are numbered, I don't want to look back and say, "What if?" I want to say, "Did I spend all of my energy and passion to make a difference?"
And if I can make a difference where people will strive, at all income levels... Because with the JOBS Act, all income levels, people can participate in this great economic democratization of sharing in the entrepreneur dream without having to be that entrepreneur. Without having to have 100% of the risks of that entrepreneur. You can just assume part of the risk by being an investor in that entrepreneur. And that people will strive to figure out how to include that as an asset class in their wealth creation strategy. And that just became part of what I do along with everything else. And I wrote the book, in part, to provide a roadmap to how to do that.
That's awesome. And to be honest with you, before you and I had a chance to chat, I was very curious as to what the compassionate part of that compassionate capitalism is. Because we all know about capitalism. That's been around. But the compassionate part... And I love your take on it because I feel like it could have so many definitions. And it probably does, because it's very broad. But I love the compassionate part being about job creation and job stimulating new entrepreneurs.
Because to be honest, I thought it was companies that made everybody feel good. And it was investing... I thought it was the compassionate part of what would be conscious of capitalism. But I love your take on it. And so let's get clear on what the difference between conscious capitalism as defined broadly, companies that do good, and compassionate capitalism. Because it could be... I'm curious as to what your thoughts are specifically.
Yeah, I get that question. Not every day, but often. And I've done a couple of podcasts on it. I've interviewed some of the leaders in the conscious capitalism movement itself. And I've measured myself of like, "Okay how long have they been working on this idea?" And so, "Okay, here's my timeline if I can do that myself." And so I build proponents of it, of compassionate capitalism.
How I look at it is, conscious capitalism is really about how an organization internally, and the leaders in that organization, are going to structure the corporate environment, their corporate mandate, their corporate culture so that it's how they uplift their employees. How they treat their employees. How they treat their customers. How they are participating in their community. And are they using their money... We have a lot of discussions right now going on about this difference in wealth between the very high ups in an organization and the and the entry-level people within the organization, whether it's a bank president versus the tellers at the window or however it is. There's a big dichotomy on that and. And the pressure of other CEOs to say, "that shouldn't be the way it is." Your employees shouldn't have to work two jobs to be able to live. If you're making millions and millions of dollars, there should be something to spread that wealth down within your organization. So it's internal.
Whereas I look at compassionate capitalism is more of an external, in the way that an individual will apply their funds and their wealth to the benefit of others. I was at a... I did a podcast... So actually my podcast, it'll come out in a couple of weeks, was about this concept of invest local. And so, the beauty of the JOBS Act that our legislature had at that time, which was intended to be an economic stimulus, was that not only did it take the barriers away from the entrepreneurs trying to find capital outside of the very narrow constraints. And having to get through that closed door of angel investor groups. And how they break through it to be able to get access to that capital. It gave them a broader audience to use all the modern means of communication within the structure of how they're offering it to reach other people that might be interested in that.
And on the flip side of that, was for investors, or people that had discretionary income, to be able to say, "Look, I like to..." Even if it was just somebody that is a millennial or somebody that's making $200,000 a year, they're not an accredited investor, but they want to spread it out and put $500 into 10 different companies in a period of time. Lower risk, not as much gain, but you potentially could ride one all the way through that becomes a venture-backed. So there is a way for people to play in that. And when I first came out with a book in 2017, I was out in San Francisco getting an award and I was staying with friends of mine. And my friend David, he was a professor and a Dean at a private high school, and his wife was a master electrician. And they were just live in their regular middle-income life, and walking down to the restaurant, didn't have a car, really a thing living in San Francisco and enjoying their life.
And they were like, "What is angel investing? What do you mean?" And I came to find out that there's a huge amount of our population that... We take it for granted as people that are part of entrepreneur-ism, and I, part of the angel world for a decade, over a decade, that people understand that they know this term, but they don't. And I said, "Well, let's put it to you this way. Say there was a restaurant down the street that you love. You know the owner. You go there every Friday, or every other Friday and that owner says to you, 'Well, you know what? Look the hairdresser next door is closed down. I'm going to expand my restaurant because there're lines around the block every weekend. People waiting to get in. We have such a long waiting list. And I've just wanted to get my top 10 customers to give me $1,000 apiece because I can't get that money from the bank and I need some decorating, need some marketing. I need to do this and I can expand that.' You might go, yes. I've got 1000 bucks, let me put it in."
But 1000 bucks for somebody like that is like 10,000 to somebody else or 100,000 to a high-end angel investor. It means a lot to them, that's making a couple hundred thousand dollars to choose to do that. And so it's just as painful for them to lose that. And if they haven't been given a roadmap on how to evaluate whether that is a good investment, they may invest based on emotion because they can, and maybe they need to do a couple of checks and balances on that before they make that emotional investment. And that would be the invest local as a compassionate capitalist because they want to see these restaurant owners succeed. They love it, they love the business, they want to see it succeed. And they could participate in the success of that business if it succeeds at whatever level. And so, that's where it's really about people choosing how to spend their money that has an impact, whether locally or on a national, international basis.
And I love that because it just aligns so much with what we do, and the stories that we hear from our account holders in what they're doing. And even me personally, there's... I live in Austin and there's a restaurant that I drive by every day on my way home from work. And I go there a couple of times a week, probably, just grab a beer and a sandwich. And they did a revenue-back loan that they did. And it was awesome because I love this place. It was on a platform, which was super easy. And I just, I threw a thousand bucks in there and then every time I went by and I could tell my friends, "Hey, yeah. That place."
And it felt great because like you said, I know the owner and I've had dinner with him, and I go there all the time, and I know the bartenders, and I know the waitstaff and it was a really fun thing. And it felt a lot better than having some Vanguard ETF or whatever that I don't think about. So I love that approach to it of investing locally. And I know that's what a lot of our customers are doing. Tell me, what's a misunderstanding that people have? Or what's something that people get wrong when they think about getting into angel investing, or getting into the compassionate capitalism movement?
Okay, so one of the things that I think is... That I fight against all the time. And it's the FUD, the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that you have out there that has been perpetuated by the financial planners in the wealth managers. Not necessarily, they don't understand the impact that they have. Part of it is FINRA, who is a regulatory body of the broker-dealer community, where all your financial planners and people that are licensed in that space hang their licenses. It started with the SEC, and then FINRA took it over. Actually, NASD, but FINRA, SEC gave them the power to do this.
So they have this idea called selling away. And so the idea behind selling away says that if you... And it doesn't happen in real estate... so financial planners and wealth managers will advise a client on investing in real estate and how it fits in their portfolio. But when it comes to investing in private companies, they won't advise them on it because of this fear of selling away. That they'll get fined because they recommended, or did something, within a financial product that their broker didn't get paid for. And so to discourage that, they have creative FUD about angel investing as being extremely high risk. The odds are that you're going to lose your money, and you might as well go to Vegas and gamble. That's the idea behind it. And that's the FUD that keeps getting put out there.
When I was rebuilding the angel group, I would go and talk to these wealth managers and I would say, "Oh, don't you have some people that are curious about this? I know you can't advise them, but have them come, have them read my book, have them come to a meeting so that they can learn from other investors." And they're like, "Oh no, no, no, no, I can't do that." And so, depending on the diversification strategy of a portfolio, there are people, either based on their age or their income, that set aside 10–20% for alternative investments that might be considered high risk.
And yes, there is this rule of 10 that has been put out there by VCs and angel investor groups that says if you are going to invest in ten companies, three are going to completely lose your money. Three, you're going to break even. Three, you're going to do pretty well. And one's going to make it out of the park that's going to make up for everything else. That's this rule of thumb that's out there.
The problem is, you don't know which one it is. Everyone you invest in, you think is going to be the one that's going to hit it out in the park. That's why you invest. And there are all kinds of factors that come into that. But there are ways to mitigate risk. There are ways to structure investing in entrepreneurs, just like you did with the revenue financing model. You're not in it for five, six, seven years waiting on an exit. You can get a return on that investment in short order because you've looked at what the growth strategy is.
When I was doing the investing local thing, we talked about the investor being the bank. I have investors that... I have a chapter in my book about how you can loan when the banks won't. It's bridge financing on a contract. It's providing the purchase order escrow money for that purchase order financing for this big order that they can't get money from. There're ways that people can participate, based on their risk tolerance. And so to shift that paradigm that it's not just this high-risk equity play that may take a long time. And part of it is there's insurance against that stuff.
When I was first learning about angel investing, when I wrote the precursor to the book I have now, I probably interviewed a hundred angel investors. Why did you invest in this deal? Why didn't you invest in that deal? How'd you learn how to be an angel investor? How'd you get introduced to being an angel investor? And I learned that the reason why... They got invited by a friend, they had come into some money, golden parachute, or sold a company or something like that. They got invited into this exclusive group of investors. And they almost, without exception, lost their money on the first few deals that they did. And I've been subject to that too, because I invested based on emotion, and not off of the things, the objective factors, that I could use to evaluate a deal. And they learned by losing. Which I've thought, that's a horrible way to learn how to be an investor. You've got to have a serious fortitude to be committed to this as an asset class to be able to do that.
So when the JOBS Act came out, I realized there was still no real education out there for investors, and that's why I wrote the book. To be a roadmap... That's back here for anybody that's on the video. Inside Secrets to Angel Investing, it was a roadmap to learn to do that. To try to be objective and not subjective when it comes time to make that investment decision and to spread your risk out. You can't just do one. You have to have a strategy that says, "I'm going to invest in 10 companies, five companies... 10 companies over this period. And the amount of money I have that's liquid for that." Or in your case, in a Self-Directed IRA, or in some kind of retirement fund that I can use for that.
There's a certain amount that I'm going to put in so that every six months I'm going to make an investment. Three times a year, whatever it is over some time, so you can diversify. And hopefully, find the one or two that will make the difference. But if you apply the principles and discipline that I outlined in the book, and the tools that I provide with the portal, you're better equipped to be making those decisions, and walk away from deals that you may love. "Oh, I really like this, but there's just something about it," or that kind of thing.
Yeah, and that's fascinating. Because I think one of the things that... You mentioned earlier, that a lot of people aren't aware that angel investing is a thing. But I feel like a lot of times the people that get into angel investing, they're expecting to invest in the Uber's or the Airbnb's or something. These huge unicorns. When in reality, there are very few companies that should even try to get to that scale. But that doesn't mean they don't need money. For example, equity may or may not be the right investment vehicle for them. Maybe it's a loan, or maybe it's something else. And it might decrease your gains because you're not going for those huge unicorn type companies.
But there's a way to provide capital to businesses where your interests are aligned. For example, I like revenue backed loans. They make so much sense to me. And I know I'm giving up upside, and I know that I'm giving up whatever. But I'm not waiting for that company to scale, or I'm not waiting for a 50 million series B. I'm not waiting for these sorts of things to happen to get my money back. I can feel good about investing in something that I believe in, that has no business being a hugely scalable, multinational company. It can just be a good company that provides me a return. And then I can do it again within a couple of years, not five or seven or 10 years that I have to wait for my money to come out.
Absolutely. Yeah, get a lot of base hits, or doubles and triples, not necessarily the home run. Until you accumulate enough of a nest egg from those wins that you're like, "You know what? I like this deal. I've got enough money that I've accumulated from these other things. I've learned a lot about the ups and downs, and the risks and stuff like this. I've learned by doing these smaller, consistent things, and now I'll throw 50 grand into something that is pie in the sky because I just really believe in that technology." Because we do need that. And that's one of the things I talk about in the book as well.
Because you think about technology... The fact that we are potentially going to have a personal flight to the moon. Or that we have the VR technology that we have. That we have some of this incredible medical technology. Lasers that came go in under a microscope within and fix something with very little downtime to the surgery process. The reason why we have this incredible technology out there, because there were people that were willing to do the hit it to the back of the field, and I'll lose my money because I have enough money to lose. And I'm willing to invest in the technology that will be propelled forward because we'll learn from that. And the 20 years it got to be where we are right now with VR, or drone technology or stuff like that. There's been a technology path that has led us to where we are today that now has a credible impact.
So blessings to those people that were willing to put that kind of money at risk. But there's so many more, that can't afford to put that kind of money at risk. And let them do basics. Let them start to accumulate wealth differently. They may not have the 25, 30 grand on hand to be able to buy an investment rental house or something like that. They may not... Or to rehab a house, something like that. But they might have a thousand, or 2000, that he could put into these base hits. So there're ways that they can start accumulating wealth, and then even add a foundation for greater wealth through other types of investments.
Right. I agree. And I think that those people that take the moonshots, we can call him that. There's a great documentary called Silicon Cowboys, and some of these guys were just insane in what they saw. And they knew that it was going to cost them a lot of money to get there. But they... You said earlier, the people that have the fortitude to do that, and to lose that money, but to advance the space, knowing that they do this and they do that, then eventually they'll get one. And I think that's completely necessary, but at the same time, on an individual level, you still have to do what's right for you. And there's a way for everyone to participate. And like you said, get those base hits, get that comfort level.
And get that network. Because that network is important in these areas. And angel networks, like the one that you ran. I know we have CTAN in Austin, and most major cities have one. And they're important. But I just think there's a lot of people that just jump in too quickly. And it's so easy to get excited about the space because you're talking to... Entrepreneurs are the best salespeople in the world. They are so passionate about what they're doing. But it's important to have the discipline to know, and just know what an investment is. This is a base hit, this is a moonshot. And be okay with the moonshot.
Yep, absolutely. So if I could share a story. So one of the stories, when I was getting my book edited, they said, "You need to make it relatable. You need to add a story to it." And so, it was a real story with an investor. One of my first outside... I just randomly met this guy at a networking event in Atlanta, and he was an executive in a company. I call him Joe and my book. And so, he was an executive in a company where he was the CEO of an American operation, foreign-owned company. And he was looking at his life at the mid to late 40s say. The midlife crisis says, "I want to be an entrepreneur. I don't want to just keep doing these corporate gigs, same things. Where's my challenge in life?"
And so he had been talking to his financial planner about leaving the corporate gig, and either buying a company or starting a company. And he'd never heard of angel investing. He saw it on my card, and he goes, "What's angel investing?" I was like, "Really?" And I said, "Let me send you," Back then my ebook was when you had a PDF and you emailed it to people. And so I sent him my ebook, and I invited him to a meeting, and he started to come. And one of the things I recommended people to do when they're first getting started is, do a convertible note. Do something that's a bridge financing that you're not in it for that long-term on your very first investment.
And this company had invented... It was right... We were in the midst of trying to figure out all this stuff with terrorism. And we had this situation where you had to start not wearing your shoes going through TSA and things like that. And this company had invented this technology, and a lot of money had already been put into it. So their valuation was fairly high. Millions of dollars had already been put into it. And it had this technology that you could scan a container at a shipyard, or you could walk through it as a TSA thing that you walked through. And based on the density of matter, it could tell the difference between the liquid in a bottle that was nitroglycerin, or water. Or if a bag of powder was sugar or cocaine. It could tell that just through a very quick x-ray.
And so they had pending big finance coming in that was going to help... Because the equipment is expensive. They had done some beta tests, they were in testing with the Department of Defense. They were doing these things. They needed 75 grand to bridge finance them through payroll and stuff like that for the 60 days before this other money came through. And you could validate the other money. It was legit money. It was just this closing process that they were going through. And so this guy stepped up and he did the bridge finance. Got some warrants out of it. Plus got his money back with interest.
And so that was his first experience in it. And it was perfect because it was critical for this company. If they didn't have that, they may not have been able to sustain and keep their employees continuing to do what they needed to do to go the distance. And so it was critical capital at that time. And he still owns... Because that company hasn't had a liquidity event. They've gone on, they continue to sell a lot of products overseas. They've gone on and done well, but they just haven't had that liquidity event. Because you don't get the exit until they IPO, or they sell. And so that's just one of those things. And so there are so many ways that you can participate. You have to open up your mind to the possibilities, and first get to the emotional decision that, "I'm going to do this. Now let me just figure out how I can and what works for me and my risk tolerance and my access to capital."
Right. And that's a great story, because... And it touched on a little bit of what we touched on earlier is that having that right connection, that right educational resource, in Joe's case, you, can be a huge help. Because if you don't have that network and you don't have that education, it's easy to get lost in this space. So I love what you're doing in providing that education for people that are looking to get started, or looking to accelerate. I think it's fantastic. But I'm curious... So I've asked this a lot this year, just because it's a good time to do it. But as we go into 2020, and this decade, what would you like to see from the space? Or where do you think we'll be in five or 10 years with the compassionate capitalism movement with entrepreneurship? What are you excited to see?
I'm excited to see that people embrace the idea that the greatest source of wealth and financial independence is made through successful entrepreneur-ism. But not everybody is equipped emotionally. There are all of these aspects that it takes to be a successful entrepreneur. It's hard work to be a successful entrepreneur. There's a lot of risk involved in that. Whether it's open up that restaurant, or coming out with some breakthrough new technology, whatever it is. And the money involved in all of that.
So for those that like the fact that "You know what? I like it having a predictable income, I like having my benefits in my company job. I like having to be able to take off a half hour early so I can make it to my kid's soccer game or softball game. I like being able to know on Saturdays I can play golf. I don't have to be working extra because I'm this entrepreneur." They say, "But I want the excitement. I want to share that passion of that entrepreneurism by being an investor in those that I believe in the entrepreneur, I believe in what they're doing, and the benefit and the impact that they're going to have with their technology. Or just what the value they bring to their community. And I'm going to be one of their silent partners." You don't want to call an angel investor? Silent partners.
And if you think about Rich Dad, Poor Dad. It's been around for a long time. Robert Kiyosaki wrote it. He created this concept of the cashflow quadrant. I use it. A lot of people that seek financial intelligence and being able to master their financial future, they understand the cashflow quadrant. And so for your listeners that don't, I'll just explain it real quick. It's a quadrant where you got right side, left side. On the left side if it's facing you is entrepreneurs, self-employed. And their money is tied to time. And then on the right side, you've got business owners and investors. And it's tied to wealth creation that's independent of time.
And the idea is that... And the thing that he proposed was business owners can step away from their business in such a way that it's not dependent on them being there to make money. They've created teams, they've created processes that they can enjoy their life. Whether it's a great style of lifestyle income, or they seek to grow to create generational wealth. But then they also put their money to work in investing in things that create wealth. And most often, Robert Kiyosaki talks about it in the form of real estate. And a lot of people... There's been a whole cottage industry for the last 30 years of people try to... Because guess what, the access to capital changed, and how banks were loaning money on real estate. And the tax laws changed on how you could deduct those expenses of investing in real estate. And then education came along to teach people how to invest in real estate.
So what we have now with the US is two of those factors. Access to capital has changed when it comes to investing in entrepreneurs. The regulatory environment has changed. And in some regards, tax laws have changed, and the way that you can do that. But then now we need education. And so, what I see is a cottage industry in the next decade being created to teach people how to invest in entrepreneurs, how to manage your money and allocate that to be able to be a part of that where people will say, "Yes, I'm going to be a silent partner in entrepreneurs. I'm going to participate on the right side of the quadrant as a business owner. I'm going to own multiple pieces of businesses that are generating revenue, to pay me on revenue finance. Or are spreading out, with some are equity, some are that way."
Just like I would in a real estate portfolio. I'm investing in things, creating income properties. I'm investing in things that I can bridge finance to flip, and make a return on that. And I'm investing in long play strategic investment in real estate that I think is going to have future value. Well, that's the same way that you can approach investing in entrepreneur-ism. And it's just people deciding that's going to be a part of their portfolio. That's happening in the next decade.
That's fantastic. And I think you're right with your real estate analogy around where we're going. The explosion, and not only the participation, but the validity of the space. For example, in crowdfunding. It used to be, four or five years ago that if you went the crowdfunding route, it was like, "Why did you have to do that? You couldn't just get it from an angel group?" And I think that's going away. For example, we're doing a crowdfunding thing with one of our partners on Republic. And for us, it's as much about getting the word out that we're there.
It's a great place to trumpet yourself and your company, and raise money while you're doing it. Which helps you expand and market and reach more people, and all that. So I think it's a fantastic space and I think that we're right on the... In the beginning stages of where this space is going in general. I love it. I'm excited about it.
But, so Karen, wrapping up if someone listening to this wants to get in touch with you, they want to get your content, where, where can they get in touch with you? Get in touch with your work, and learn from you?
Okay. So my website is very easy. It's KarenRands.co. You can go to Amazon and get my book. You can go to the bookstores you like and order it. It's not on bookshelves, but you can order it there. That's Inside Secrets to Angel Investing. You can go to Angel Insights, secretstoangelinvesting.com, which is a page in the karenrands.co, and you can get an excerpt. There are 44 inside secrets in the book that are outlined. 12 of them are in a free document that you can get at the karenrands.co or insidesecretstoangelinvesting.com.
And I encourage people to go and listen to my podcast, Compassionate Capitalist Podcast. It's on iTunes and Stitcher and TuneIn, and about a dozen other podcast players. And I interview a lot of angel investors on how they got started, and what they've done, what their best practices are. And other things about creating wealth and protecting wealth. Family offices, things like that. Also, best practices for entrepreneurs that are scaling. And that's a good place to go. And all my social media is on the website.
And when I go in and I talk to angel investor groups, I've come in as a speaker. Or when I go to economic development organizations, and the chamber of commerce as a speaker, I talk about that great economic democratization. And that role that all the different ways that you can crowdfund, from reward-based to private equity. All of that fits in the traditional model of angel investing. And that there're ways to, for companies and investors, to utilize these. To reduce the risk of that investment. To validate the company, to get that company to another level before they qualify, or they don't qualify for some of the traditional equity investment strategies. And so I'm a big believer and proponent of the JOBS Act as a means to accomplish what I'm trying to accomplish with the compassionate capitalist movement.
As are we with our products at Rocket Dollar as well. Karen, thank you. Thank you again for being on the show. And thank you for the work that you do, because it's important, and I think it helps lift the space just in general. So thank you for that. And we look forward to having you on the show again. I feel like we could spread this over several episodes. So we'll for sure have you back on. I want to thank you again.
I appreciate that, Tom. Thank you very much. I look forward to doing that. I look forward to seeing this get out there. And thank you very much for helping me to spread this message.