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Rocket Your Dollar Ep. 23: The Human Side of Money and Investing

Rocket Your Dollar Ep. 23: The Human Side of Money and Investing

Money is personal,  and technology is a compliment to the role a human can play when it comes to finances. Brian Thorp started Wealthtender, an online platform with the mission to help people achieve their financial goals in a community environment with a personal touch.



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Thomas Young: Today, I am excited to have Brian Thorp here, on the show with us. Brian as a really interesting backstory, where he went from having a corporate career and transitioning towards entrepreneurship, but always in the finance and the personal finance space.

A little bit about Brian. He grew up in Houston, attended the University of Texas at Austin, which is my alma mater as well. Then, after attending UT, he moved back to Houston to work for a company called Invesco, and they're a global money member.

Brian Thorp: That's right.

Thomas Young: Definitely in the finance space. Brian spent his last six years at his Invesco. His responsibilities were strategy and managing Invesco's partnerships with wealth management firms, before leaving this past summer to start his own business called Wealthtender.

Brian now splits his time between Houston, and what he calls his happy place, which is Austin, Texas. They enjoy mornings on the trail around Lady Bird Lake. We've probably run by each other before and didn't even notice it.

Brian Thorp: Right?

Thomas Young: And their evenings with friends, sipping spicy margaritas.

Before we even get started, what's the best place in Austin to get a spicy margarita?

Brian Thorp: We were just talking. We have a place here in Austin, down off Barton Springs, [Iloma 00:01:46], that's certainly a great one, great margaritas, great patio if the weather cooperates.

Thomas Young: Yeah.

Brian Thorp: La Condesa, downtown, another great spot. You name it, it's hard to go wrong.

Thomas Young: Yeah, totally agree. If there's anything that's easy to get in Austin, it's a good margarita.

Brian Thorp: Indeed.

Thomas Young: Let's kick it off from the very beginning.

Brian Thorp: Sure.

Thomas Young: Once you left school, how did you get started at Invesco, and what was that like, that corporate career?

Brian Thorp: Sure.

Thomas Young: And such a huge money manager?

Brian Thorp: Yeah. As you mentioned, I graduated from the University of Texas with a finance degree in 1995. I actually stuck around Austin for a couple of years, was trying to delay my adulting, if you will. I had a lot of friends that were still in school. So, I worked for a mortgage company here for a couple of years. Then, as everybody was moving on, I decided it must be time that I needed to grow up, and focus on a more traditional career.

Always been interested in personal finance, and had the opportunity to go back, and start with a company called Aim Investments, at the time, in Houston. They actually merged with Invesco in 1997. So, for the entire time that I was there, the 22 years, really part of Invesco. It was a great ride, it was an opportunity to start an operational role. We had a range of institutional money market funds, working with large financial institutions. That afforded me an opportunity to get my feet in the door. From there, just was surrounded by great people, some terrific mentors that brought me along for the ride. Worked my way up through sales management.

From a corporate perspective, it was really a lot of fun, really interesting to be a part of a real growth story for the first couple of years. Then, as the economy took a downturn, and the markets came off a bull run, I got to experience how challenging it can be.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: To be an asset manager, going through tough times. Stuck with the company, we had a great CEO that came in, in 2006, really helped to turn things around. From there, that really propelled my career into sales leadership, providing me an opportunity to really help focus on distribution strategy, and leading our key account team over the last few years, where we were working with wealth management firms. Those could be national firms, like Edward Jones, Primerica, Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch, UBS, Wells Fargo. Basically, thousands of financial advisors across the country that were utilizing, predominantly, Invesco mutual funds and ETFs.

My team was responsible for working with the leadership and home offices of those wealth management firms, to help place our products and maintain the relationships that we had with those institutions.

Thomas Young: Very cool. Did you spend much time with the individual advisors, or were you more in a macro role, let's call it?

Brian Thorp: Sure. My team, in particular, a really talented team of individuals that were tacked with the responsibilities for all the activities in the home office. Having the mutual funds and ETFs from Invesco available to the financial advisors requires a lot of work in the home office, whether it's related to contracts, or the marketing initiatives we might be working to promote through the home office.

Then, in terms of individuals working directly with the financial advisors, that was a separate group predominantly.

Thomas Young: Okay.

Brian Thorp: That was responsible for working with the advisors around the country, a couple of hundred of, again, very talented people that I commend. The road warriors, if you will, many of them that were on the road more often than not.

Thomas Young: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Thorp: Spending day in, day out, getting to really know the financial advisors, getting to understand their clients, and then ultimately, helping to find the right products for them.

Thomas Young: Right. The feedback that they get, speaking with advisors, and by extension with consumers at the end of the day, must have been just tremendously valuable for your team, and for you personally?

Brian Thorp: Yeah.

Thomas Young: The reason I'm asking this is that it's a good segue into what you're working on now. What were some big things that you saw, or some of the big trends, if you will, that you saw in your time at Invesco?

Brian Thorp: Sure.

Thomas Young: That lead towards the entrepreneurial journey that you're on now, with Wealthtender? We'll get into what Wealthtender is in a little bit.

Brian Thorp: Yeah. Again, really fascinating to just be a part of not only the growth of the company but also just the evolution that transpired over time. You've seen people questioning whether the future of financial advice would be human, and we'll come back to that. A lot of people thinking that investors would simply go-to technology, digital apps, and tools to help with their investments.

I think we now have seen a realization amongst people that money is a very emotional topic. Digital tools can absolutely be a compliment to help with your investments. That was, actually, one thing that was just interesting to see is that what people thought was going to go in one direction, but now I think it, like so many things, has become a little more balanced.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: The pendulum has swung back to the middle, and people realize that technology is a compliment to the role a human can play.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: The other big trend that was very impactful to Invesco, where the vast majority of assets that Invesco has managed historically were actively managed products. Clearly, when we think about Rocket Dollar, there's no form of active management, more active, in my opinion, than self-directed investing. But, just shy of what would be traditional portfolio managers that you select through, predominantly mutual funds historically, to pick individual stocks as opposed to index investing.

Over the last number of years, we've had one heck of a long bull market, where for many people, the best place to secure returns has just been putting it away in index funds. It's interesting, a lot of people believe that's the way to go, that active management really doesn't have a role in a portfolio. I think that's, perhaps, a little bit more cyclical. Clearly, as an active manager, in order to create value, there are going to be some that produce incremental Alpha, and outperformance, and others that don't.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: It becomes important to pick the right manager.

Thomas Young: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Thorp: The other thing, and I think this is really going to be interesting for active managers in the year ahead, is I believe many active managers have really had one arm behind their back for the last several years, for the very reason that active management, historically, has had to be in a mutual fund structure. We've seen ETFs really take off, but predominantly those have been utilized by investors who are looking for more index exposures.

The SEC, the Securities and Exchange Commission, just in the last couple of months after a 10-year delay, passed relief that will allow active managers to now offer their strategies in an ETF structure, which is going to bring lower cost, greater transparency, and ultimately improve tax efficiency.

Thomas Young: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Thorp: That will take a number of active strategies that have historically been available in a mutual fund for, maybe, 100 basis points, and can bring that down to something like 35 basis points.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: It's still going to be more expensive than a passive index fund. But, that in itself I think could be a tremendous catalyst for firms like Invesco and other asset managers out there, that have more of an active.

Thomas Young: Yeah. I agree with what you said. We'll touch on two things, about the human side of it all. I think it was TurboTax, earlier this year during tax seasons, they had this huge campaign about being able to talk to an advisor.

Brian Thorp: Right.

Thomas Young: Wow, they've completely gone full circle, where TurboTax is the king of taking people out of tax preparation or whatever.

Brian Thorp: Right.

Thomas Young: Now, they're touting human advisors. With what you said, at every stage of the game, there are going to be humans involved. Whether it's the one-on-one advisor, that's as much of an emotional crutch, because finances are so emotional, all the way to active management, to these products. Technology should just compliment, right? There are things that humans are just going to do better because they've been around, they have the experience, they have a gut feeling, whatever it is. Technology should just compliment that.

Brian Thorp: Sure, absolutely. I agree with that. I think for the last several years now, we've seen a number of exit strategies for these technology companies, to actually become more of a tool and a compliment for human advice. I had the privilege at Invesco of working on an acquisition that we did of a company called Gemstep, which was a digital tool to help allocate portfolios through an online format.

Ultimately, for Gemstep, it proved to be a great exit strategy, and a great benefit for Invesco to bring that in house, and ultimately make that a compliment, in terms of a tool that could be available for financial advisors to utilize with their clients.

To your point, whether TurboTax ... In the last year, we've seen Charles Schwab introduce subscription-based financial advisor services.

I think for $30 a month, you can have access to a Chartered Financial Analyst, or a CFP, a Certified Financial Planner, to help you with your money matters. WealthFront, I believe, is another one. It really started off as one of these so-called robo-advisors. Now, introducing that human element as well. When you look at saving for retirement, again, it is such an emotional topic. Generally, many people who have a partner are focused on working through that together. I think it's very similar to the real estate marketplace, where historically people going and buying a house have utilized a real estate agent. Many people thought that was going to be fully disrupted by technology, because sure, an app can just help connect a buyer and a seller.

When you start talking about a place where people are actually going to live, and the school district, and somebody that actually can hold your hand. Many times, you have a spouse, they may have an opinion on certain things. A computer is not going to be able to provide that emotional reaction to help you navigate through something as well as a human being can do.

Thomas Young: Right, absolutely. I think the real estate example is great, with realtors, because there's no reason that technology can't facilitate a transaction for a home. But, actually stepping into the house with someone, being talked through it. I think one of the cool things that realtors are really good at, is they're really good at telling the story of how you're going to use the space or whatever.

You can't do that with an app, even if you have 3D renderings, and you're using VR to put on goggles, it's not the same.

It's not the same as having your handheld through ... For 99% of people, their primary residence is the largest single purchase they will ever make in their life.There's an expectation of service. The same thing with your finances, retirement and retirement planning is one of the most important undertakings that people have. Doing it by yourself, there's so much anxiety, and angst, and emotion, and shame, whatever, around financial planning, that doing it by yourself, and doing it with a computer, it lacks something.

Brian Thorp: I think that's right. Ultimately, again, I'm a big believer in technology. One of the reasons why I left was to get a little bit more involved in the technology side. There are so many great things going on in FinTech, and that includes the real estate space, and just personal finance, and finance in general.

No doubt that the influence of technology, the role of technology to really help drive down the cost, and certainly disrupting in terms of the role that a human advisor in a financial sense will play, or the role of a real estate agent has evolved.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: Going back to some changes I've seen with Invesco, and the financial advice space in general, that role of financial advisor that historically had been, "You give me your money, I'll put it to work. I'll spend my time ..." At one point, they were called stock brokers. "I'm going to work on finding this stock to put you in." "I'm going to try to get you to go into this next stock."
Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: It's really evolved to being much more of a holistic understanding of an individual, or a couples' financial picture.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: The utilization of technology to help with portfolio management, and allocation of investments, to allow more time for that human element, to really help with those emotional aspects, and just tackling all the different money matters that come up throughout life.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: It becomes much more important, or integral, for the role of the advisors.

Thomas Young: Absolutely. I think that's a great segue into talking about your transition from Invesco to Wealthtender.

Brian Thorp: Sure.

Thomas Young: I was on your website earlier, and I saw that you have different lengths of pitches of what it is. You have the five-second, or the 30-second, the five-minute.

Thomas Young: Tell us what it is?

Brian Thorp: Sure.

Thomas Young: And what, ultimately, lead you to make the switch from a full-time corporate career, to entrepreneurship, and this project? Which, I've spent a couple of hours this morning, looking at your website, and I love the content.

Brian Thorp: Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. I'm excited to have a great team of writers that have been contributing to the site at this point. A lot of exciting things coming in the year ahead.

In terms of my inspiration to leave and try something different, it was tough. It was a tough decision to leave Invesco, a tremendous company, a lot of great people there. Ultimately, I've always had the entrepreneurial bug, and a desire to do something on my own. In the last year, Invesco made a major acquisition of Oppenheimer Funds, which afforded me an opportunity to put my hand up and say, "I want to take an exit, and try something a little bit different."

Thomas Young: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Thorp: It was tremendous to have the support from the people at Invesco, to do just that. Most importantly, to have the support of my wife to head out and do something on my own.That's been terrific. With regard to Wealthtender itself, I really wanted to focus on something that would allow me to remain very much focused on my passion for financial services, but to really come up the curve on the technology side. Again, I really think there's a lot of great things going on in the FinTech space. What better way to come up the curve on the technology side than to develop a website?

I have a good friend here in Austin that has a website development agency, he's been a terrific resource to really help me come up the curve. We're actually now working with a team in Bulgaria to compliment the onshore development work that we're doing.

At the outset, I really wanted to focus on getting a site up and running that includes a lot of personal finance education. Again, the team of writers that I have contributing, freelance writers, bring a really diverse background from not only geography, writers in the UK, Canada, and the US, but we also have individuals ... One, who is a financial coach, another who works for the Canadian government in an economic role, has been just a tremendous resource and mentor to me on a number of things. Another that has basically been a rocket scientist at NASA.

I think what's important about those diverse perspectives is, in the world that we live in, you don't necessarily need to go down the street to the nearest financial advisor, who may or may not happen to have the same life experience as you.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: Or, understand your circumstances. But, by going online, you can really start to establish a relationship, even if it's just today, coming to Wealthtender to start to gain perspective on financial matters, challenges, you might be going through in life. Doing so, and hearing from people that really resonate because they're speaking from the heart.

It's very authentic, they're speaking about their own life experiences. One of the things that we're looking to do with Wealthtender is to really connect people who can serve as a great resource, a trusted resource, to help pl that are trying to tackle their own money challenges with people that have already walked in their shoes. Or, that has those unique perspectives that really resonate.

When you look in the personal finance space, part of the inspiration for Wealthtender has really come from a couple of thousand blogs that are out there. You have these personal finance bloggers, the vast majority of whom have, perhaps, a day job of some sort, but ultimately are really what I would call personal finance enthusiasts.

They love being online, they love, again, sharing their own life experiences and insights to help other people with whatever they're going through. I think that's one of the opportunities for Wealthtender in the new year, is to help create a discovery platform, a directory if you will, that will allow people more easily find, of those 2000 blogs, that we can help curate and bring to the top, those personal finance blogs that may resonate, based upon your own personal circumstances. Whether that be social activities that you're most interested in, where there's just a connection of some sort.

Thomas Young: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Thorp: Or, again, you're trying to get out of student loan debt, and looking for somebody that's actually been there, done that. Or, whatever the case may be. As we move into the new year, a lot of exciting developments. The key thing is, we want to be the guide for people, to what we're calling the human side of money and investing, which gets back to what we've been talking about here all along. Utilizing the technology as a platform, but ultimately using that as a platform to connect people to other people, who can help with their finances.

Thomas Young: I love it. One of the things that struck me, when I went on your site for the first time, was the sense of community that you're looking to foster. We've had other guests on the show, and we've talked about, just in the office, about how much emotion, and how personal money is to a lot of people, and how uncomfortable they are talking about it. People are more comfortable sharing intimate details of their home life, right? Then they are talking about money. I had Lewis on the show a couple of weeks ago, and he brought up something about that the number one emotion that people feel when it comes to their personal finances is a shame.

That struck me, that really resonated with me. I thought about it, and when you do talk about money it's, what are you doing? Why aren't you doing this? Everybody has got an opinion, so people just block themselves off.

Brian Thorp: Right.

Thomas Young: Encouraging discussions around personal finance, encouraging vulnerability, sharing, I think, ultimately leads to people being more secure and being stronger, knowing that they're not alone. I think it's really important because we've all got money challenges.

Brian Thorp: Right, absolutely.

Thomas Young: Whether you have a lot of money, whether you have a little bit of money, whether you make a lot of money, whether you have a spending problem, whether you're late, you're 50 and you don't have a 401K, people have money problems. They should be talked about, and there shouldn't be shame in it.

Thomas Young: That's one of the things that I really liked about your site, is that you're fostering this sense of community.

Brian Thorp: Yeah, I appreciate that. You hit the nail on the head, you mentioned shame. One of our writers just published an article on Wealthtender in the last couple of weeks that was talking about exactly that. Another one, I think, had an analogy just this morning that I was reviewing, saying "That if everybody were walking around outside and had a display over their head that indicated the amount of credit card debt they were carrying, a lot of people would feel a lot less insecure about their own finances."

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: That's one of the things that we're hoping to accomplish with Wealthtender, which is to instill that confidence by helping people realize that they're not alone.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: Again, with a lot of the personal finance blogs, and bloggers that are out there, I think you see a lot of that.

Thomas Young: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Thorp: With Wealthtender, I've touched on a lot of what these personal finance blogs have been doing out there, with Invesco, financial advisors that have been there to serve a portion of the community, but there are only so many financial advisors to go around.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: You have this very fragmented group of resources around the country, that go by the name of money coaches, or financial coaches. A lot of people just aren't yet at that stage, there the primary services that a financial advisor offers are what they primarily need. With many financial advisors, a lot of their role, still today, is focused on helping you take your money and make more of it. As we all know, there are a lot of people that are just starting out, earlier in life. Or, even further along, that can't necessarily think just about how to make their money grow. They're, first and foremost, focused on how to get out of debt, whether it's the student loan crisis that we know is pretty meaningful.

Credit card debt, or just even trying to save to buy that first house or for transportation. There's just so much more out there, with regard to life events that people are tackling, and we really want to be the go-to place, that whatever that life even is that you're tacking, you can come to Wealthtender and we'll have the tools and resources to help you find the right Wealthtender for you.

Again, what we're really looking to convey is that the right Wealthtender for you may not be a traditional financial advisor, it may very well be a personal finance coach, or what we're hoping to do is create new monetization opportunities for personal finance bloggers, who may be so inclined to provide their own services in more of a one-on-one format, beyond just the blogs and a lot of the writing that they're doing. You don't necessarily need an individual who has particular credentials, when you can rely on somebody who has their own authentic life experiences to share. And can do so at a much more affordable rate.

In fact, at not only a more affordable rate, can probably provide better financial education and guidance based upon your particular needs, because they've really walked in your shoes, they know what it's like to go through that very money challenge that you're facing.

Thomas Young: Yeah, absolutely. One of the big things, for people especially just starting out, in their 20s, coming out of college. I have friends that are still active on apps like Robin Hood. Trading and they're trying to make 20%, or double their money, or whatever. When, in reality, the thing that young people should be most focused on, I think, is their savings rate, and that includes their rate of debt repayment, that's factored in there.

For me, personally, I'm much more obsessive about my savings rate number than my yield I get on investments. I'm just not focused on that because I'm early in my career, I don't have much money, and it's much more important for me to build the savings muscle than the investing muscle. Eventually, there's a transition, and you need a different set of tools when that happens.

That's one of the things, I think, that Wealthtender provides, depending on what ... You even have it on your About page, what people are looking at in different stages of their life. You don't really accumulate enough assets to really spend a meaningful amount of your time focusing on yield until you've had 10, 15 years of work experience, and savings experience. I feel like a lot of people are putting the cart before the horse, in that regard.
Brian Thorp: Yeah, I think that's right. I think you touched on a couple of things, too. On the one hand, apps like Robin Hood, Acorns, again, terrific tools that are hopefully putting people in the right mindset to think about beginning to invest, or taking their spare change and starting to put it away. Yeah, for many people, just getting the help and the insight as to how to enjoy life more with less, which could be really more of a focus on, how can I reduce my expenses, but still live the lifestyle that I'd like to lead?

Then, ultimately, on the making money side a big focus, and a number of writers and areas of interest amongst our readers as well, side hustles and opportunities to compliment that day job. That now, is generally easier than ever.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: Through some of the remote activities that you can do.

Thomas Young: Yeah, that's actually something that I've started thinking about, personally, in the last few weeks. At Rocket Dollar, I have the opportunity to write a lot of our blogs. Obviously, I'm producing the podcast, there's a lot of cool content that we create, that serves our specific community. For me personally, there's a lot of content that I care about, as a 26, 27-year old that's not as relevant to the Rocket Dollar story, but I feel like I want to get it out there. I love reading, I'm on Medium all the time reading personal finance bloggers. There are a few that I really respect, and you see them grow and write better. The conversations I end up having with my friends, just because of where I work and what I do, a lot of our conversations do turn to money. We all have the same problems, it's really interesting. We all spend too much on food, we all spend too much on rent, and it's frustrating. Therein lies the opportunity.

Brian Thorp: Absolutely. Whether it's articles that are touching on each of those topics, but also, really, just how to put together a plan. I think that's really the next stage of growth for Wealthtender, is to not only provide that content, but as we start to introduce people with the opportunities to have one-on-one consultations that could be done either live chat, or it could be a Skype video, whatever the case may be, I think it starts to create that sense of accountability towards, okay, let's take what you've read and focused on how we can truly implement a plan. And, hold yourself accountable to it, having a coach that's there to help hold you accountable to it, and ultimately recognizing that with a plan in place, it's really amazing what you can accomplish.

Thomas Young: Absolutely. Having that plan laid out, and having the confidence in that plan. Then, it's just executing on a plan.

Brian Thorp: That's right.

Thomas Young: It's like training for a marathon. It sounds so daunting to go out and run 26.2 miles, but if, six months before, you have every day laid out of what you have to do, then you're just ticking boxes. As long as you can tick those boxes, you will meet that goal. It's the same for if you want to do an Iron Man, or if you want to retire with $5 million, or $3 million, or however many dollars you want. It's just working backward from what that ultimate goal is.

Brian Thorp: I think that's right. I'll see you at the finish line, sipping on a margarita.

Thomas Young: Yeah, exactly. Like you said earlier, some of us are more further along in that journey, so they are things that I can learn from someone like you, that has had a career that's been longer than mine, or from my parents. They're things that I can learn from people that are just five years older than me, or six years older than me.

Brian Thorp: Sure.

Thomas Young: Maybe they bought that first house, and they learned a lot, or they wish they'd saved a couple of years more for the down ... Whatever it is, it's a different experience, and there's a lot to be learned from having those conversations. People don't, because personal finance is a touchy subject. It's the first thing you learn when you're a kid, it's not polite to talk about money.

Brian Thorp: Right. Unfortunately, that then follows through to our formal education system, which really lacks any curriculum dedicated to the topic of the very thing that's so integral to everybody's life. I think partly, for that very reason, without any type of curriculum throughout formal education for most people, that so many people are turning to the Internet for guidance. You mentioned Medium. Many of the writers on Wealthtender today also write on Medium. It's a terrific outlet, along with these personal finance blogs, that people have either utilized themselves as an outlet to share, based on their own life experiences, partly for the very reason that they want to give back to the community that has lacked that opportunity to have personal finance training or education. Through more of our formal school system.

Thomas Young: Right, I totally agree. I guess as we get towards the end of the episode, we've touched a little bit about what the future holds for Wealthtender, but what's the one thing you're super excited about for 2020 for Wealthtender?

Brian Thorp: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is really going to be evolving from a content site to truly establishing a platform that provides individuals, no matter their income or stage of life, with a directory to find, based on a particular category that they might be interested in, the right resource to help them. Whether it's that finance coach, or a blogger, or a financial advisor, or community resources.

Brian Thorp: That's one thing we haven't really talked about as much, but within the regions and particular cities, communities, there's a lot of free resources that are out there as well. One of the things that we want to do at Wealthtender is really elevated awareness as to the community resources, as well as the financial coaches and advisors that are out there.

Thomas Young: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brian Thorp: Building that platform. Again, we've got primarily the team in Bulgaria right now that's working to build that next stage of the platform. Ultimately, later in the year, getting us to the point where we can have that one-on-one coaching collaboration platform is going to be a big piece of it, as well.

Thomas Young: Yeah, that's awesome. I've already bookmarked it, and I'm excited to get all the updates. I just thought of this question.

Brian Thorp: Sure.

Thomas Young: But, having such an in-depth experience, knowledge, in the personal finance space, what's the one book that you would recommend for personal finance? If you were going to just give a 25-year old one book, what would it be?

Brian Thorp: Oh, let's see.

Thomas Young: Putting you on the spot, because I didn't send you this question beforehand.

Brian Thorp: Yeah, no. No worries. Gosh, there are so many. I think it partly depends if you're more focused on the investing space, or personal finance in general.

Brian Thorp: While I try to think about what it would be, there are so many resources right now beyond just traditional books. The podcasts that are inspirational and interesting, and one that I would start with there, for people that are thinking about more of an entrepreneurial path, sponsored by The Hustle, which is a really interesting newsletter.

Thomas Young: They're based here in Austin. Or, they have an office.

Brian Thorp: They have a big office here in Austin, I believe.

Thomas Young: I've spoken to them about Rocket Dollar being on the newsletter.

Brian Thorp: Yeah. They have a podcast called My First Million. I think that is something that I would recommend people to consider, as a compliment to books that are out there. If you are focused on more of an entrepreneurial endeavor or have that mindset, it really inspires you with stories that they share of people who literally made their first million, how they got there, and do it in a tremendous way, when it comes to just the storytelling aspect of the podcast itself.

Brian Thorp: Others that are out there, in terms of books? Gosh, I'm trying to think. I feel like-

Thomas Young: There's so many.

Brian Thorp: There are so many.

Thomas Young: Yeah.

Thomas Young: Well, Brian, if someone wants to reach out to you, get in touch with you, learn from you?
Brian Thorp: Sure.

Thomas Young: What's the best way to get in touch with you?

Brian Thorp: Sure. Easiest would be Brian@Wealthtender.com. So, that's B-R-I-A-N@Wealthtender.com. That's tender, T-E-N-D-E-R. Some people have asked if we were trying to do a play on Tinder, the dating app.

Thomas Young: Oh.

Brian Thorp: Perhaps there are some similarities with the connectivity that we're trying to create between individuals, and doing some matchmaking with financial resources.

Thomas Young: Right.

Brian Thorp: I did secure that domain, T-I-N-D-E-R, just in case.

Thomas Young: Oh, nice.

Brian Thorp: Wealthtender, with an I. Anyway, Brian@Wealthtender.com. Happy to chat with anybody, whether it's about what we're up to at Wealthtender, or from an angel investing perspective. That's been a lot of fun as well. Clearly, anybody that has any questions about my own experience with Rocket Dollar, certainly happy to help them with that as well.

Thomas Young: Fantastic. Brian, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. This is going to be a fantastic episode, and we'll have you again.
Brian Thorp: All right, appreciate it. Thank you very much.

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